Friday, July 30, 2010

Vegetarian or non-vegetarian is better?


In this post I'm going to give you a message actually, specially for the vegetarians. Basically I'm focusing on the consequences of being a vegetarian to the environment as well as the consequences which may result in your body. Imagine that you are a vegetarian (if you are not).
Most of you may say "I really disagree in killing animals because there is a right for the animals too to live in this world with us!" this could be one of the major answers of a vegetarian. So, let me ask you a question...How do animals including humans acquire energy? Definitely your first answer I expect is that animals acquire energy through plants.
But the most paranormal fact you may not want to even hear is this fact which was found lately by late scientists. The fact is that plants do feel pain and some claim that plants even can cry when they are subjected to trauma. Even if they cry we cannot hear their cry because our human ear can only hear within a certain range of frequencies but a plant's cry is not within our human ear's frequency and therefore we cannot hear them crying. Therefore this idea fades away as scientists discovered this fact. And also today we know that every moment we inhale and exhale, millions of living creatures (microorganisms) die. So even here, many living creatures die. But, you may ask me that plants have less senses than do animals. Yes i agree with that too. But imagine that you have 2 brothers where one brother is healthy while the other is blind and deaf. And if a man kills the healthy person or the disabled one, how will you punish the murderer? Will you say if that man killed your healthy brother, you will give higher punishment? or else if that man killed your blind brother, would you say that you will punish less severely than that for killing the healthy brother? No. Surely you will punish that man equally whether he killed the healthy or disabled one because he have killed an innocent person. Similarly, we cannot consider plants and animals in different aspects because they both do perceive pain. Now lets discuss about iron absorption to your body. In fact iron is an essential substance which contributes in transportation of oxygen in the body. There are 2 forms of iron found in food - haem iron and non haem iron. Haem iron is the more readily absorbed iron which is usually found in meat. Therefore this proves that for a healthy body we cannot always depend on plants because intake of iron through plants is not much efficient therefore this can lead to many conditions like anaemia.
And also statistics show that the rate of increment of the population of cows is much more greater so if we didn't consume them as food (as a need for human), this also leads to over population of cows which is much unpleasant. 
I hope you gained some knowledge by reading this post. If you have any doubts dont hesitate, just make a comment about this post. Whether or not you have a doubt comments are very much appreciated and will not be neglected... :)

References: 

13 comments:

  1. Interesting. Couple of points you may not have considered.

    Ask most meat eaters in the West, why they eat meat and most will tell you it's simply because it tastes good. Since eating meat isn't compulsory for most humans these days, it is arguable that the death of these animals, is done simply because people 'enjoy' it. If I were to beat a puppy to death just because it was 'enjoyable', I imagine people would rightly complain? Not saying meat eaters do this, but the argument that vegetarians make when they say they do not wish an animal to die simply so they can 'enjoy' a burger (which is pretty unhealthy anyway) I think should be respected.

    The vegetarian diet is actually a far more efficient diet in terms of resources used, reducing your carbon output,

    http://imparo.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/vegetarianism-vs-meat-eating-and-global-warming/

    water use, and of course making better use of the crops.

    http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3559542.stm

    The idea that 'it's ok to kill animals because you kill microbes by breathing' is perhaps a little desperate. And 'cows take over the world if unchecked!'? I doubt it. The birth rate for cows is so high because it is linked in with both the meat and milk industries. Cows need to calf in order to produce milk (unlike goats) so birth rates are artificially inflated by humans. That said, from a species point of view, being farmed and eaten by humans is actually a pretty good survival technique. Cows, pigs and chickens don't seem to be in any danger of extinction.

    So don't be too hard on us vegetarians. We have our reasons!

    http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/101.html

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  2. @ Doc..
    before clearing out ur misinterpretations of my post i, i thank u v much for giving ur valuable comments or feedbacks...
    Actually u have siad that eating meat is for the purpose of enjoying it,..well..of course i do agree with that idea.. but yet i dont agree with ur example which is beating a dog.. actually beating a dog cannot be compared for eating the flesh of an animal.. bcoz beating cannot be compared with eating... eating serves two purposes...
    1) human satisfaction by gaining nutrients
    2) controlling the population of that species..(in my example i have used cattles..)
    but,, beating a dog serves only one purpose.. that is only the enjoyment of beating the dog only.. but dis doesnt giv a human even a single help...
    Well.. if u did not intake flesh of animal or meat.. u only have one option that is to intake plant matter.. so.. doesnt this mean u kill another organism in order to ensure the existence of human??
    and also u also cannot say plants do not feel pain .. today science shows us that even plants can feel pain as well as they can cry....( i have given references for these in my blog.)
    So as a researcher i dont see any difference of killing animals and killing plants because they both do perceive...
    Now on ur final point that says that animals :cows,pigs,hens..do not extinct..
    Of course yes i agree with ur concept and also i have too said in my blog post as well...bcoz of this reason only there are carnivorous animals who help us to reduce or control these animal population at a certain level.. so what will happen if these animals:cows ( in my example) get over populated? those cattles may over crowd the population.. this is not my saying but this is a result of researchers or stasticians who have showed that the rate of reproduction is increased...

    I hope this answered ur questions or doubts... i also repeat again my topic says "a friendly message" not a message that force u to eat meat..
    if u have any doubts pls dont hesitate just make a comment...

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  3. Actually someone beating a dog to death could be used as a way of satisfaction for some people (not me) and would also reduce the dog population (assuming no one was breeding more dogs to fill a demand for dogs to be beaten to death).. but that's hardly the point.. People simply do not eat meat to 'control' populations. The supply and demand chain within farming doesn't work like that. Mainly, they do it because it's enjoyable.. (if they were doing it to control populations, how come they don't eat rats? or cockroaches?)

    And you have to admit that some people do unfortunately enjoy and get a thrill out of the deaths of animals without eating them (Roman circus, fox hunting, bull fighting, badger baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting, holding a magnifying glass to a line of ants... need i go on???) The fact that people 'gain nutrients' while eating is true but as I said, MOST do not need to gain nutrients in that way. Nutrition from meat is often a secondary consideration.

    I am not saying that vegetarians do not kill plants (fruitarians don't though)... but plants feeling pain is not a proven event. The links you posted refer to old studies and a quick net search will quickly show you there are many conflicting ideas and studies on this using more up to date machines (rather than the old lie-detectors used in the 1960's studies)

    But even if we accept the studies you posted on face value and say, 'ok.. plants feel pain', does that makes it ok to inflict it on animals as well? If it's ok to kill animals because it's ok to kill plants then isn't it also ok to kill people? You even mention killing microbes as an argument that killing animals is ok.. drawing the line slightly randomly I think..

    I just raise here that two core points to your argument: that it is ok to kill an animal to eat, because it's ok to kill a plant (regardless of weather a plant actually feels pain or not), and that eating animals does a service by controlling populations, are fundamentally flawed both scientifically and in terms of macro-economics, and highly questionable morally. Especially when weighed against the benefits of a vegetarian diet to both the individual and the planet as a whole... I submit an alternative 'Friendly and logical message..'

    I know you are not trying to force anyone to eat meat and I hope you understand that I'm not trying to convert you to vegetarianism either. You invited me to comment, I welcome and encourage the debate and I have always enjoyed our discussions! :)

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  4. @ doc..
    personally i dont agree with ur logic bcoz for me its not logical to compare beating of dogs and intaking meat as "food".. ;)
    and also there is another fact that i didnt post in my blog post.. that cud be a better argument for u i hope...and also i dont want to argue with u coz u r senior to me and as i know u r a phd holder in uk..
    but i wud also like to share my views on this topic..
    that is about amino acids..
    actually as i learnt there are 8 essential amino acids to humans and also as know there is not a single vegetable or fruit on the face of the earth that gives u all the 8 essential amino acids.. therefore we shud intake them externally.. they are present in fish, egg, and also meat..
    anyway i really thank u for actively participating in this friendly discussion... :) :)):)

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  5. I did say that I was not suggesting that if you eat meat you should go kick a puppy to death! :)

    I was using an extreme example admittedly to reflect the one presented by you. I use the example simply to say that killing an animal for your enjoyment is generally not accepted these days. And since most people do not need to eat meat, and do so only because they enjoy it, you would have to admit that if someone enjoyed kicking puppies to death this is an equally logical comparison?

    I wouldn't worry about my PhD. It wasn't in food sciences, but I have also been a vegetarian myself for over 20 years and as you can see by the fact that I'm still typing, I'm not dead yet! :P So even your argument that we need meat to live isn't without it's flaws ;)

    Most vegetarians do not consider eggs as a meat, but there are also nuts and seeds that can be used to supplement diet. Also, with ever growing use of genetics, microbial sourced nutrients can take the place of animal sourced ones. Rennet, used in cheese making is a good example of how microbial sources can take the place of animals.

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  6. @Doc... i really appreciate ur active participation in this disscussion and also i want to make some points as well.. i also did not say that people will die if they didnt eat flesh of animals or rather meat!! of course they dont die... but i wanted to convey is that it is better to have them in ur diet.. anyway... i really enjoyed this disscussion...thank u v much!!! :)

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  7. In today's society, in most countries, you can be a vegetarian and supplement any losses through vitamins. As such, it comes down to a matter of reasoning and choice.

    Myself, I hunt & fish. Obviously, the times when this was needed to provide a stable diet are over - this is a social/family inherited behavior. I may be breaking a bit of the "man code", here, but let me say: Fish: Whatever; BUT, if you kill any of the other critters (deer, turkey, pheasant, partridge, raccoon, etc) without recognizing their natural beauty and amazing adaptive traits that make them good hunting fair, and don't have to swallow that split second of pain as you approach the downed animal; I'd argue you are a dangerous creature who needs mental help.

    I once had an employee who was "vegan". His reasoning was all about efficiency: You could feed 4 families for 2 years off the land/vegetation used to raise one cow for one year (producing only enough meat, in 2 years, for 2 families.) This, to me, made more sense than any of the 'suffering' arguments out there.

    As I said, though: In all modern countries, there are enough options, in regards to falsely fortified/'alternative' foods (like the aforementioned cheeses) supplemental pills that it all boils down to personal choice.

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  8. @mike..yeah i agree with u.. ;) of course if i kill deers,raccon,etc for food.. realy as u mentioned i will need a serious mental help..haha..
    but i was not talking about those kind of animals.. i meant flesh of fish,cattles...but not pigs coz there are also disadvantages with outweighs the advantages of them.. therefore i dont recommend pigs personally... but the flesh of animals like fish,cattles,chicken i say these kind of flesh is more beneficial.. for example there is not a single plant on the face of earth that gives u all the 8 essential amino acids therefore we shud take in other sources... like fish,etc and also protein intake or absorbtion is higher than plant matte in meat...
    btw i really appreciate ur comment...thanx!!

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  9. you can get all your amino acids on a vegetarian and even vegan diet through nuts and pulses. if you couldn't, i and many others would have died a long time ago..

    thanks as well mike for making the important point of recognising that the meat and fish you eat deserve some respect as animals. i've taught kids and even adults here in the uk that don't even understand there is a link between 'chicken (you buy it from the supermarket)' and 'A CHICKEN (those things that run around a farm yard)'.. they seriously thought they were different things! and this is not uncommon. try explaining to them that 'pork' = 'a pig' and they look at you like you're crazy!

    i've no argument that meat/fish in the diet (in moderation) can be helpful to some and essential to other (eskimos can't grow peanuts!) but no life, even that of animals should be simply considered as commodities here to destroy for our personal gratification. here in the west, MOST (and i stress that it is not all) simply eat meat because they get personal gratification from the taste, and some don't even know what the meat they eat is.

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  10. ‎@ Doc.. I dont personally want anyone to force any1 to be a non vegan.. i wrote this post with the sole intention of conveying the message that eating fish,etc is better... so if u have 2 options, and one is better, but natural its going to be the best of two...
    So let me ask u a question.. will u eat animals if u dont hear their voice? and if u dont c them?
    in the same way just because u dont see plants' cry.. and their feelings when they r subjected to 'trauma', u dont stop eating plants coz u shud survive...imagine that u r blind and deff and u want to eat something to survive.. and will u not kill another organism in order for u to survive?
    or else just because u dont hear will u try to eat that animal? u shud always consider humans first... animals and plants both do perceive..the only difference between them is that their voices are different so u only hear the animals sound but just coz u dont hear the plants cry why do u eat themmm...? just leave them coz according to u ... they also have the right to live..
    Anything and everything in this world have their limits..so i dont want to say that ppl shud eat all the animals in the world.. so what is better u shudhave them...
    for example according to u, ppl dont eat the whole forest.. the reason is natural selection... nature selects the best who can survive....
    u may dont believe that plants do cry.. so check the link blow.. for proof..

    1. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15320720.800-stressed-plants-cry-for-help.html
    2. http://www.skepdic.com/plants.html

    So u choose what is best... and also just bcoz u dont have the whole essential amino acids u will NEVER die.. but i say u will surely be a weak person when compared with a person who intake both meat,fish,egg and by the way plants in their diet...

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  11. well i would disagree that a meat eating option is better is all...

    let's put vegetarian vs omnivore aside for now since neither of us is trying to convert the other. let's agree that both ways have their merits.. you see more in eating meat and i don't..

    i would like to look again at this idea of plants feeling pain. it seems to be one of the core points of your argument and i really can't see why.. so far your arguments using this are pretty spurious.

    you've provided a few references and i thank you for them. i'm familiar with the backster effect and there are many studies that suggest plants respond to their environment... and common sense would tell you that they must since they obviously respond to light... does this equate to a sensation of pain though?? so far none of the articles you have provided have said as such. and feeling 'stress' isn't the same thing.. concrete can be 'stressed' doesn't mean it feels pain.. stimuli aimed at a plant produces a response.. ok..

    but even accepting that plants DO feel genuine pain.. why is this a point of your argument? you are basically saying.. we eat plants.. they feel pain.. so therefore, it's ok to eat animals.. because anyone who eats plants is already causing pain.. ok.. so why not eat people as well? since we are causing pain to an animal, it must be ok to cause pain to a human...

    i might add in support of this that unborn babies are not thought to feel pain till around 20weeks of development..

    http://news.discovery.com/human/fetus-pain-abortion-law.html

    they certainly respond to stimulus before then.. that make it ok to eat them??

    your argument that plants feel pain has yet to be proved (sorry but your references do not prove it) and even if it were the case, it does not become a justification to eat animals.

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  12. @doc.. to be a vegan or a non vegan is a choice...according to what i understand about the perceptions of plants..is..that they release some kind of i mean some kind of sound wave when they r subjected to trauma...that happens only when we cut or slice them...and its proven that its not the sound produced when 2 things knock 2gether..its a sound of the organism.. and as u said, even if plants cry, it is ur sole choice whether to eat flesh of not...anyway i just put forwarded some authentic researches..(pls dont say they r nt authentic.coz in my links its clearly described about the procedures how they did the experiment..)
    for example.. the when they pass a beam, and while they cut or slice the plant, it is shown that beam is being disturbed... if u want u too can check this in ur lab if u have the relevant instruments :)
    it natural that not everybody understand things the same..but i wanted everybody to understand these important points when they come to this particular subject...;)

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